Former Shia Waqf Board chief Wasim Rizvi, who reverted to Hinduism by renouncing Islam in December 2021, has been making headlines for quite some time on various issues, be it his support to the construction of a Ram temple in Ayodhya or his claim that madarsas breed terrorists or his conversion to Hinduism or more recently his book- Muhammad. Speaking to Kumkum Chadha in an interview with Hindustan Times, Wasim Rizvi alias Jitendra Narayan Swami spoke about his stand on several issues pertaining to him.
Muslim bodies are aware that many more mosques have been built over Hindu temples
When he was questioned as to why, after practising Islam for 46 years of his life, he denounced the religion and reverted to Hinduism, Rizvi said that that the Ram Mandir issue had first prompted him to take the decision. He said that when he came to know that even he had been made a party in the Ram Mandir case, he attended a meeting of Muslim bodies to discuss the Ayodhya hearing.
“I asked them that in case you win the case, will you remove the idol from the disputed area. They answered in the negative. So I asked them then why are you creating an atmosphere of animosity and hatred. To this, they said that if today we give up one mosque, then we will have to give away many more in the future”, said Rizvi adding that the Muslim bodies were aware that many more mosques have been built over Hindu temples. He further said that he proposed in the meeting that a committee be formed to hand over those mosques to the Hindus which were built on temples. The Muslim bodies, irked with the proposal, called Rizvi a BJP, RSS stooge.
This is when he separated himself from the Sunni Waqf Board and submitted an affidavit in the Supreme Court, calling for the construction of the Ram Mandir. This is when for the first time Rizvi was expelled from Islam.
Here the journalist confirms whether the expulsion was the reason for him to denounce Islam. Rizvi declined, saying that after he was expelled he started studying Islam and Quran and issues like Islamic Jihad and extremism. “This is when I started speaking out against the Quran because I realised it encourages terrorism. The Quran is responsible for all the carnage and violence inflicted by jihadists.”
“Quran specifically mentions that Allah requires Muslims to kill Kaafirs who do not believe in Islam or the Prophet. It explicitly commands them to wage jihad against Kaafirs.”
I have not read the Quran but understood it…it mandates Muslims to kill Kaafirs: Wasim Rizvi
Kumkum Chadha, the journalist with the Hindustan Times, discreetly criticises Rizvi for attacking the Quran, which “he read for 46 years.” Wasim Rizvi interrupts her and reminds her sternly that he hasn’t read the Quran but understood it.
Speaking about the Supreme Courts decision’s to dismiss his plea to remove 26 verses of the Quran for promoting terrorism, Rizvi maintains that he respects the Supreme Court’s verdict but he is dissatisfied. “I accepted the ruling and paid the Rs 50,000 fine, but I was dissatisfied with the outcome. I continued my debate over the Quran’s 26 verses. No decision can change my feelings about it. I showed them the mirror that the terrorist’s jihad is influenced by the Quran” said Rizvi.
The interviewer, constantly attempting to prove Rizvi’s decision to denounce Islam as a mistake and an impulsive decision tells the former Shia Waqf Board chief that he might have misinterpreted or misunderstood the Quran. It might have been a lack of understanding, said Kumkum Chadda adding that even if Rizvi disagrees with the Quran, how far is it fair to dismiss the religious text?
Wasim Rizvi retorted strongly to the journalist, claiming that he had not gone astray and had spoken only after thoroughly studying the Quran. “Allah has mandated Muslims to fight the infidels”, reiterated Rizvi.
The interviewer, who tries her utmost to defend Islam at every turn, questioned Rizvi why he had to publicly slander the sacred text even if he did not agree with it. Wasim Rizvi lashed back, claiming that he is only raising awareness about Islam and not defaming it.
“They are openly doing Jihad and we are expected to keep quiet, why? This concerns our security and humanity, how can I remain silent? You are saying I am defaming Islam…no I am not, I am merely showing them the mirror,” retaliated Rizvi vociferously.
The Hindustan Times journalist demanded to know why Rizvi did not speak against Islamic terrorism and jihad earlier? “The terrorist activities are not new, have been happening for several years… where were you during the twin tower blast…why didn’t you raise your voice then”, asked Chadda to which Rizvi replied that he began his study of Islam only four and a half years ago.
Chadda asked Rizvi if his personal grudge had led him to criticise Islam, inferring that he had done so selectively. The former Shia Waqf Board chief hit back saying “It’s not about personal animosity but humanity. If no one has spoken up against the Islamic atrocities for the last 1400 years why can’t you criticise it now,” blasted Rizvi.
“This is what Islam preaches. If you speak against Islam you will be killed”, said Rizvi.
Would have accepted even the lowest class to revert to Hinduism: Wasim Razvi
The journalist further questioned Rizvi about his conversion to Hinduism, asking why he accepted the downgrading from Syed- which is equivalent to a Brahmin in Hinduism to Tyagi. Rizvi explained that he became Tyagi as he was adopted by Yati Narasinghanand Giri’s father. Wasim Rizvi further told the journalist that he does not believe in caste and he was more than willing to accept even the lowest class to revert to Hinduism.
Responding to allegations that he reverted to Hinduism and joined BJP to save himself from the several cases that had been filed against him and from accusations of siphoning off funds as the chairman of the Waqf Board, Wasim Rizvi sternly retorted demanding an enquiry against him. “I myself demanded a CBI probe”.
Further explaining why he had been targeted, Rizvi said that his disagreement has always been with the “Mullas”. “I never became their rubber stamp… and how do you presume that conversion to Hinduism would save me from the charges levelled against me. Converting to Hinduism doesn’t;t mean the cases against me will be dismissed”.
‘Y’all are the secular people and do not want to understand the Muslim conspiracy’: Wasim Rizvi to the Hindustan Times journalist
The journalist here launched a veiled attack on the ruling dispensation claiming that it’s an established fact that BJP goes soft on the people who join the party and take a back seat against those who adopt their ideologies. She insinuated that Rizvi joined BJP to clear himself from the accusations levelled against him. To this, Rizvi strongly retaliated by saying that there is no proof of any wrongdoing against him.
“What is your political agenda?” was the next question posed at Wasim Rizvi to which he replied unequivocally that his political agenda is to weaken the strength of the Muslims because ISIS training is being imparted in every mosque and madarsa in India. “A huge conspiracy is being hatched which you will not understand or should I say people like you do not want to understand since y’all are the secular people and do not want to understand the Muslim conspiracy,” Rizvi riposted explicitly, further elucidating to the journalist the secularism is the biggest poison for people of her likes.
The journalist, looking a little flustered by Wasim Rizvi’s quick responses, told him at this point that he is speaking the language of the BJP. Rizvi retorted by saying that he only speaks for the interest of the nation. “I applaud the BJP people who speak in this language as it is in the interest of the country and the Sanatanis”.
Wasim Rizvi went on to slam the journalist for accusing the BJP and RSS of Hindu appeasement, saying that at least Hindu organisations such as the RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, and others are working for the welfare and upliftment of Hindus rather than nurturing terrorism. “What is wrong in preaching your religion?” Rizvi asked the journalist, who then quickly shifted to asking him the next question.
“It’s only been a month since I have reverted to Hinduism and in this small span of time I have at least understood this much that Sanatan Dharam is a religion of humanity”, said Rizvi, responding to the journalist who asked him how much has he read about Hinduism.
To understand Sanatan Dharma you only need to learn two words- Love and Humanity
Continuing her efforts to defend Islam and denigrate Rizvi for denouncing it, the journalist asked Wasim Rizvi how a person who needed 48 years to understand Islam could fully understand the Sanatan Dharam in a matter of months. Here, Wasim Rizvi astutely told the Hindustan Times journalist that to understand Sanatan Dharma you only need to learn two words- Love and Humanity. “This is the definition of the Sanatan Dharam.”
The journalist reiterated that Rizvi himself confessed that he has not read the Sanatan Dharam properly as it has been a month since he has reverted to Hinduism. Rizvi quips saying that who can be a better example of a Sanatani than the journalist herself. “One can understand from your face what Sanatan Dharam is all about…that’s why you are so secular…you do not want to believe that people (in an obvious reference to Muslims) out there are conspiring to kill you… you keep harping that they are good human beings…they are our brothers…we should remain secular”.
The journalist asked Rizvi whether he was trying to be sarcastic…to which he laughed and said that his intention was not to mock her but use the opportunity to explain to the Muslims that, “you believe in Allah and we are fine with that, but you need to bring some reforms within yourself, you need to change a little”, opined Rizvi.
The Hindustan Times journalist, continuously trying to persuade Wasim Rizvi that rejecting Islam and converting to Hinduism was a wrong move, argued that it would have been preferable to stay inside the community and faith and correct your own people rather than stepping out and hitting at them. The former Waqf Board chief retorted saying that how is it fair that only because he was born into Islam he compulsorily had to remain associated with radicals and terrorist organisations spawned by Islamists.
Hindus and Muslims have the same blood but the difference lies in their thinking and ideologies, opined Rizvi.
Madarsas will spread Jihad and Muslim revolution and you will have to give away another piece of land
The journalist further questioned Wasim Rizvi as to what was his logic or basis behind asking PM Narendra Modi in 2018, to shut down all Madarsas claiming they breed terrorists. Rizvi responded by stating that if the decision to close all Madarsas is not made today, a revolution will emerge from these Madarsas in the coming 15-20 years. “These Madarsas will spread Jihad and Muslim revolution and you will have to give away another piece of land”.
Rizvi further questioned the deliberation of the Muslim clerics to open Madarsas instead of schools. He stated that small children are trained in these Madarsas. Each and every Madarsa is imparting ISIS terror training to children. The only purpose of primary Madarsas is to teach young children the Quran. They are brainwashed and radicalised as they start understanding the Quran. This is why I urged the government to close primary Madarsas and stop funding them, said Rizvi.
If children are sent to school at that age and given the opportunity to interact with children of other religions, such as Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and others, they will not grow as fanatical and bloodthirsty as Muslims are now, opined Rizvi strongly backing his demand to shut primary Madarsas.
The journalist, at this point, told Wasim Rizvi that she would not allow him to degrade the Prophet on her show and that they should be talking about logic and facts. Coming to Rizvi’s book, Muhammad, she contended that the book contained remarks against Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad. She reminded him that a complaint had also been filed against him for the same. Here she asked: “It is ok to disagree with a religion but how correct is it to insult the Prophet?”
Rizvi retorted by saying “How are you considering him (the character in his book) the Prophet? You are insulting my imagination by calling him the Prophet”, said Rizvi matter-of-factly.
Evoking Rizvi’s remark that he wants to be cremated rather than buried, the Hindustan Times journalist questioned him whether this statement was driven by his admiration for the religion or fear that the Muslims will not give him a place in their burial grounds.
Rizvi painfully retorts by saying that the Muslims had denied him a burial space that he had reserved beside his father’s tomb. They had broken it. “If I wanted to be buried I had the option to surrender my views and beliefs but I have stuck to them. So, I told them to cremate me when I die instead of letting my body rot on the streets.
Again, in a futile attempt to persuade others that Rizvi’s conversion to Hinduism was forced rather than voluntary, the journalist told him that there are two points that convince her that he converted out of compulsion. Firstly when he said that he was abandoned from his community so he converted and secondly when he said that since he would not get a place in burial grounds he should be cremated. This is suggestive of some sought of compulsion rather than will. “Because I am not getting what I should, I will take what is available”, stated Kumkum Chadha, suggesting that Rizvi’s conversion was a mere compromise.
Wasim Rizvi lambasted the journalist for presuming that his conversion to Hinduism was a compromise. “My conversion to Hinduism is not a compromise. If at all I wanted to compromise I would have struck a deal with the Mullas only. When I reserved a burial space 12-15 years ago, it was obvious that I wanted to be buried as per the Muslim customs. But I was constantly attacked by the Muslim brethren. Yet I never surrendered before them. I kept paving a path for myself. This is not a compromise. The more I read about Islam in the last four and a half years the more aversed I got towards it and the community as a whole.
The journalist opined that after conversion Wasim Rizvi is neither here nor there. Neither would the Muslim recognise him nor would the Hindus give me space in their community. Wasim Rizvi slams the journalist saying that “No Hindu will disown me. They have accepted and embraced me with a lot of love and respect. Yes, you might not accept me as you appear more of a secular to me”, lambasted the former Shia Waqf Board chief.
