On Sunday, April 16, News Agency ANI published the 57th episode of ‘Podcast With Smita Prakash’ with former RAW chief Vikram Sood as the guest. During the interview, Sood talked in detail (to the point he could divulge) about the Kargil war with Pakistan. Sood mentioned that intelligence about the possible attack from Pakistan’s side was given not only by RAW but also by Military Intelligence and Intelligence Bureau.
“We can only give intelligence, how they [the government] react is up to them,” he said. Sood also talked about the incident when RAW taped a conversation between Musharraf and Aziz Khan that had the mention that the then-Prime Minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, was not fully informed about the operation against India. He said, “RAW sent a report in 1998 that they were planning something big. The report even mentioned the word war. But it was not accepted.”
EP-57 with Former R&AW Chief Vikram Sood premieres on Sunday at 7 PM IST#ANIPodcastWithSmitaPrakash #Podcast #SmitaPrakash #VikramSood
— ANI (@ANI) April 16, 2023
Click the 'Notify me' button to get a notification, when the episode goes on air: https://t.co/BHYnEjZEWB pic.twitter.com/x4tDMFeqtF
Sood added that the conversation gave evidence that the Pakistanis wanted to maintain no involvement in the Kargil infiltration. When Sharif got information about the recording, he ran to the then-President of the United States, Bill Clinton, for intervention as Sharif’s “own people” were playing a game without getting him in the loop.
“Nawaz went running to Clinton…” R&AW’s phone intercept during Kargil War and its impact#ANIPodcastWithSmitaPrakash #VikramSood #Podcast #SmitaPrakash
— ANI (@ANI) April 17, 2023
Watch the full episode here: https://t.co/BHYnEjZEWB pic.twitter.com/kaai7QyWPw
Smita Prakash reminded him of the incident when then-Deputy Prime Minister Lal Krishna Advani held a screening of the movie LOC which was based on the Kargil war. There was a mention in the movie that intelligence was given to the government and at that time, the whole theatre looked at Sood who was fuming. “It becomes the storyline,” Sood said as nothing in the aftermath could have been done.
‘I will not be considered secular’ – Indira Gandhi recalled Sikh guards
Though there is no written documentation of the incident, Sood pointed out that after Operation Blue Star, the Sikh bodyguards protecting then-Prime Minister Indira Gandhi were removed based on intelligence. However, the legend says, when Indira Gandhi came to know about it, she recalled the bodyguards saying, “Bring them back otherwise how can I be considered secular”.
Sood pointed out that it is a legend. There have been instances in the past when the ministers including the Prime Minister ignored the intelligence reports. Though the ministers like doing adulation and mixing, it is a nightmare for the security agencies. The same happened in the case of Rajiv Gandhi. The intelligence provided was checked after the assassination of Gandhi. On that day, Sood said, Gandhi did not have ample security with him which led to the incident.
Bhindranwale was made in India and Amritpal Singh is a copycat
Talking about Operation Blue Star, Sood mentioned that in his book ‘The Khalistan Conspiracy’, Special Secretary of RAW GBS Sidhu mentioned that Bhindranwale was created by India. He said, “Once you create [it] then it has a life of its own. It evolves and develops.” Sood mentioned that the Bhindranwale went out of hand and the same happened with LTTE chief Prabhakaran who was behind the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi.
Speaking on the Amritpal Saga that has been going on in Punjab, Sood called it a copycat of the Khalistan movement of Bhindranwale. In December 2022, OpIndia published a detailed report on the similarities between Bhindranwale and Amritpal Singh that can be read here. He said, “[Once it has evolved and developed] it gets repeated or copycat instant like now there is Amritpal movement is growing which is aided from abroad.”
Sood also compared the threat posed by Pakistan and China. He said the bigger threat is China which is a totalitarian state. “We are not even ready to accept Balakot happened” he added while slamming the opposition for not trusting the armed forces.
India did not retaliate in time
Regarding several major attacks initiated by Pakistan on Indian soil, Sood said India did not react to many attacks in time. From the Kashmiri Hindu exodus to the 2008 Mumbai attack, there were several instances where India should have reacted but it did not.
“We had these horrible incidents in Kashmir where the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits had to flee. We had the kidnapping of sister [he meant the daughter of then Home Minister of India Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, Rubaiya Sayeed]. We had the killing of the Air Force Squadron leader [Ravi Khanna]. What did we do in return, we later described Yasin Malik as a moderate”, Sood said. Notably, it was only after the BJP government came to power, Malik was arrested and subsequently put behind bars.
Furthermore, India did not react adequately to the 1993 Mumbai blasts, the 2006 Mumbai blasts, and the Mumbai terror attack in 2008. All these incidents required a strong reaction from India but were missed. Speaking about the importance of a political message, Vikram Sood talked about the Uri surgical strike and Balakot surgical strike. He said, “The message was important. We will strike. We can do it and we will do it and we will do it again.”
EP-57 with Former R&AW Chief Vikram Sood premieres on Sunday at 7 PM IST#ANIPodcastWithSmitaPrakash #Podcast #SmitaPrakash #VikramSood
— ANI (@ANI) April 16, 2023
Click the 'Notify me' button to get a notification, when the episode goes on air: https://t.co/BHYnEjZEWB pic.twitter.com/x4tDMFeqtF
The Reel vs real spies of India
Speaking about how spies are depicted in Indian movies, Sood said it is nowhere close to reality. “They are good as a comedy but not reality,” he said. He talked about different levels of intelligence, how spies who go to collect intelligence are completely different from those who are on the desk job or are handlers, and more. While spies who collect information may have to go silent in terms of communication with the families for months or even years, the case of those like Sood, who was a handler, go for missions with a much smaller span.
ANI Podcast With Smita Prakash | EP-57 with Former R&AW Chief Vikram Sood premieres on Sunday at 7 PM IST#ANIPodcastWithSmitaPrakash #VikramSood #SmitaPrakash
— ANI (@ANI) April 15, 2023
Tune in here tomorrow: https://t.co/LLgzRg3fCS pic.twitter.com/KJj8q11xK3
Sood agreed with Smita’s point that it is said “it is better to die than to survive in Pakistani jails owing to the torture Indian spies suffer.” He said, “We can only take care of their families [without talking about the courage they showed for the country]. We can provide them with employment and jobs. Everything else is forgotten.”
Media needs to be careful so does the general public
Speaking about the use of the latest technology in reporting what has been happening at the borders or during an attack, Sood emphasised that media should restrain from live reporting. Those, including the general public, who gets photographs or intel, should share it with the authorities first before putting it on social media.
Intelligence needs experts from outside the ‘circle’
Vikram Sood talked about the involvement of experts from all arenas in gathering information from different means. He noted that the intelligence personnel cannot be just those who have passed UPSC. In today’s time, there is a need of bringing all possible experts to the table. It could be a time-bound contract or a lifetime association with the agency. The intelligence agencies need explosive experts, communication experts, financial experts, cipher experts, and even global warming experts who can gather data and provide workable inputs to the agencies. All such experts cannot be from one sector and have to be pulled from across sectors.
